So, RWA’s forums have this ‘self moderation’ thing, where if a member feels a post violates rules, they can tag it, it gets hidden until a moderator can review it.
Lately, a lot of my posts have been being flagged. EDITED TO ADD… TODAY, I HAD TWO POSTS REMOVED… Somebody really doesn’t like me.
Now there is a particular troll on the forums I pissed off, a racist twit I pissed off, and any number of NWLs (Nice White Ladies) who probably not very happy with me. Any number of them could be flagging my posts out of sheer pettiness.
And…okay! That’s fine. I’ll just repost them on the forum. And on my blog. Because the posts they keep getting flagged are the ones where I’m calling out bias, and yeah… I’m not going to be silenced on that. Since I made it clear that deleting my posts will just result in having them posted publicly…well, we can’t say they weren’t warned, can we?
So, my latest post, which was in response to a member deciding that after she started a shitstorm, she’d just bow out.
@Forum Admin, please be advised that either *somebody* is moderating my posts without cause, because they are NOT violating any rules–cussing isn’t against the rules, even if some people don’t like it, nor is blunt speech, or I’m just being moderated for no reason.
Regardless, I’ve already made it clear, if my posts don’t get seen here… they get seen on my blog. Facebook. Twitter. With screenshots and the exact same text, because I’m done with this bullshit.
Also, something the trolls (and i suspect I know who) doing the flagging don’t get… people still get the message. Flagging it only removes it from the board. You can’t unsend it from somebody’s inbox once it’s there. If I’m right about that troll, BTW, you’re really going to make some people happy if you keep this up. Instead of staying on a closed loop, it goes out into the wide world.
My original post & the screenshot.
First line unclear-menu bar in the way!
Speaking of which… @Allyson Charles… it’s cheap of you to start shit and dodge out. Next time don’t start it if you can’t handle the clapback.
“The discussion, sadly, isn’t going anywhere positive that I can see.”
That’s because you’re wearing blinders. People who aren’t as comfortable speaking up publicly have learned things. Marginalized people have seen your posts and know that plenty of us aren’t going to sit by and let ‘calls for civility’ drown out the demand for respect more and more of US insist our marginalized members are entitled to.
Every time somebody like you, Allyson, speaks up and says shit like you and it gets countered by allies, countered by marginalized people and the allies side with marginalized people over your “CIVILITY TRIUMPS ALL” bullshit, that’s positive.
And it’s been pointed out elsewhere, but you probably missed it.
How civil would you feel if you lived your entire life having to demand respect, if your entire existence was too often judged by the color of your skin or dismissed because you couldn’t see, or ignored because people were uncomfortable with your sexuality? If people felt they had the right to touch your hair because those crazy curls are so different than theirs, or if they cut you off in line at the store because you couldn’t move as fast in your wheelchair, if they laughed or stared at your when you and your SO were walking down the street OR if you were denied the chance to marry your SO, if you could be fired from your job for marrying somebody of the same sex? How civil would you feel if every time you walked into a store, the clerks eyed you sideways because they were certain you were going to steal? If people talked three times louder to you or like you were a toddler because they see you’re disabled and they assume that means you’re stupid? If you were denied a place to live because you and your same sex partner didn’t fit into the landlord’s religious ideals?
If you live a life constantly on the defensive, you’re not going to be very civil, and I can tell you that for a fact, because you respond badly here when you feel on the defensive and you’re the one who started this shitstorm.
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Shiloh Walker
I write stuff
Keep digging that hole…the dirt looks good on you.
www.shilohwalker.com
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EDIT/UPDATE… apparently, somebody really doesn’t like it when I post on the forums, because I had another post deleted/moderated/hidden. So… an update!
Second deleted post is below.
Message 2
Well, @Forum Admin, somebody deleted or flagged my post again, which is particularly shitty since it was calling out some hurtful commentary that Diane Farr made. What’s even shittier is the fact that it appears Alexis Daria’s response to my post? THAT LOOKS TO BE DELETED.
I’ve already made it clear in several places that if my posts get deleted/flagged/hidden, especially those where I’m speaking out to support marginalized members, I will post my responses and screenshots to my blog, where they get cross-posted to twitter and FB. So…whoever flagged/deleted this one, you should reach out to @Diane Farr. I’m sure she appreciates it.
Original post below the screenshot (screenshot’s text is merely the text you’ll find below)
Oh. Oh. Oh, Diane.
You and me are probably not going to be friends. Understand now, this isn’t personal or an attack on you, although it might feel that way. But, honey… you are short-sighted, misguided and all sorts of wrong.
“It is my sincere hope that once this sturm und drang subsides, he will be able to lead once again.”
The problem is that HE NEVER LED IN THE FIRST PLACE. LEADERSHIP IS DOING WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE GROUP YOU ARE LEADING, NOT DIGGING YOUR HEELS IN OUT OF STUBBORNNESS.
Also…let’s not forget…
- he lied about his qualifications (THAT LIKELY COUNTS AS FRAUD. WE ARE A LEGAL ENTITY)
- he lied to & about board members, some of those lies leading to one board member deciding not to run**
- he has lied about people he knows which has led to no small amount of embarassment for the organization
- he played fast and loose with the P&P, along with Carol Ritter, to establish this secret ethics committee that led to the censure of Courtney Milan that led to the fucking MESS we are in
- he manipulated the outcome of the report from said unlawfully formed ethics committee, providing information to the then board that wasn’t entirely on the up and up–nobody has said it outright, but the bottom line is, a board as diverse as we had would not have acted to censure a woman of color for speaking out against RACISM. So Damon and Carol damn well manipulated shit to get the outcome they wanted. And if I’m wrong, they are welcome to try and sue me for libel, but everybody knows they won’t do shit, because that is what happened.
- when confronated about his lack of qualifications for president, he attempted to offer a book that cannot be found. The title STUD PLANET isn’t on goodreads, you can’t find Amazon reviews, there are no cached images on the internet archive. It DOESN’T EXIST. So not only did he lie about his qualifications to start, he attempted to LIE AGAIN
So. All of that said… you want a man who commited fraud, who lied, who manipulated events to force a woman of color out of our organization to lead? Am I understanding you correctly?
It may be time to retire the RITAs. They have become increasingly weird and twisted, trying to conform to the wishes of our diverse membership and ending up pleasing no one.
Oh. My. Goodness. CONFORM TO THE WISHES OF OUR DIVERSE MEMBERSHIP. ARE YOU SHITTING ME?
ALL OUR MARGINALIZED MEMBERS WANT IS THE CHANCE TO BE JUDGED FAIRLY ON THEIR OWN FUCKING MERITS, DIANE! What’s weird and twisted about wanting your book to judged fairly, based solely on the book?
Have you even talked to readers lately? READERS JUST WANT GOOD BOOKS! Hell, NORA ROBERTS COMMENTED ON HOW PEOPLE CAN ACCEPT A VAMPIRE AND A HUMAN GETTING IT ON BUT NOT A SAME SEX COUPLE!!!!
Are you more inclined to accept a fricking werewolf and an ingenue than a black woman and a white man?
HOW IS THIS CONFORMING?
And I have to stop now before my blood pressure goes through the roof and I end up having a stroke and have to be put in the bed next to my grandmother.
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Shiloh Walker
I write stuff
Keep digging that hole…the dirt looks good on you.
www.shilohwalker.com
Oh, oh, oh, Shiloh. I feel pretty sure we ARE going to be friends. LOL
I’ve been a RITA judge for nearly 20 years and in the last five or six years it has definitely gotten more difficult. More self-conscious. More painful. And the contest ever more full of itself. This year, we were even supposed to watch a YouTube video, like a class in how to judge. RWA was constantly tinkering with the rules, and I stand by my observation that it was (a) an attempt to conform to the wishes of our diverse membership, and (b) that it failed. It might be worth saying here, since I omitted it from my forum post, that both the diverse membership and the attempt to serve the diverse membership are, in my view, Very Good Things.
The judging of fiction is ALWAYS going to be subjective. There is simply no way around that. If someone doesn’t like your book, the most likely explanation is still the innocent one: that your book failed to resonate with that particular reader. That’s the luck of the draw. Some people think Shakespeare is boring. So it’s absurd to take it personally, however disappointed one may be. Beyond trying — as RWA always has — to ensure that judges have no personal vendetta against the author whose work they are judging, or are in competition with the author (you can’t judge a category in which you’ve submitted something, etc.) — reader reaction is impossible to police. It seemed to me that, in an attempt to root out the bigots among us, RWA was rather clumsily trying to regulate that very thing. I have no idea what WOULD work, alas. I’m just saying that what they were attempting to do wasn’t working.
I was therefore pleased when one of the communications from RWA indicated that part of their “righting the ship” involved hiring some expert or other to look at the RITAs. And in part of my comment on the forum, I said: “It may be time to retire the RITAs. They have become increasingly weird and twisted, trying to conform to the wishes of our diverse membership and ending up pleasing no one.”
Imagine my astonishment when I received this message today from RWA:
“Your content below was received and sent to moderation for review. Upon review, we have determined that the content violates the Forum Community Rules & Etiquette and Privacy Guidelines, and has therefore been removed from the site.
Rule violated: Respect others. Focus on the content of posts and not the people making them. Posts should maintain the professional atmosphere of the forums and should not be intentionally inflammatory, disruptive, malicious, or defamatory. The use of derogatory language when speaking about groups of people or other members is grounds for moderation of a post. Please extend the benefit of the doubt to newer members; there’s no such thing as a stupid question.
“It may be time to retire the RITAs. They have become increasingly weird and twisted, trying to conform to the wishes of our diverse membership and ending up pleasing no one.”
!!!!!
So my mild observation, which merely restates something RWA had already announced and expresses support for RWA’s position, is apparently disrespectful, unprofessional, inflammatory, etc.
Trigger finger indeed. I was trying to show RWA some love, and they slapped me down. I was going to stick with RWA. Now I’m done.
As for Damon, my comment was based on my personal knowledge of him … which was slight. I liked him very much. If the things being said about him now are true, you are absolutely right and he should not lead RWA again, in any capacity.
I’m sad to see all this happening. But hey, they shouldn’t have put their HQ in Texas. [THAT’S A JOKE, TEXAS.]
If you’re trying to imply I flagged your comment… um, yeah, don’t bother. If I have an issue with somebody’s bullshit, unless it’s outright racism, I just state it outright, kind of like I did on the forum with your post. And when it’s outright racism, I flag it, report it, and then call out the bullshit…right there on the forum. I don’t hide behind the self-moderating tool and weaponize it to hide the stuff I don’t want to read. And for the record? Your post wouldn’t be worth the effort.
And… no, we’re not going to be friends, Diane.
Because you still don’t see the insult inherent in your words… trying to conform to the wishes of their diverse membership… And when somebody chooses to be willingly blind, you can’t make them see.
Your ‘mild’ comment is rife with disrespect and a dismissive attitude toward our marginalized members. In case you didn’t notice by how many people outright called your bullshit. Somebody else likely flagged it for that very reason.
As to Damon, well, you’re the one who made the assertion, based on how little you now claim to know him, that you wanted him to ‘lead again’ once the drama (that’s a good word for your clever little phrase, right?) had passed. And you made that statement even after it became common knowledge that he’d lied, repeatedly, over a number of things, that he’d manipulated the situation so a shady ethics committee ruled unfairly against Courtney Milan, that he and Carol Ritter had unlawfully changed the P&P to cover their asses in all the shit they pulled WITH that ethics committee.
It’s one thing to have a con man bowl you over with his charm when you meet him–Suede fooled a lot of people. It’s another to comment how you hope such a person will have the chance to lead even after evidence of his bullshit has been brought to light.
The evidence had *not* been brought to light, if by that you mean I knew about it. I didn’t. Now I do, and I agree with you. As I said, I am not active on the forums and never have been. All I knew was what RWA was telling me. My comment was in reaction to the Board’s announcement, and wasn’t addressed to the forum at large. That’s a newbie mistake. Please make note of RWA’s helpful instruction to “extend the benefit of the doubt to newer members.” No need to jump on me; anyone who is not privy to the discussions you are privy to is unlikely to know what you know.
If you see something offensive in my observation that RWA was trying to conform to the wishes of their diverse membership, you are layering something on top of what I said that simply isn’t there. RWA has a diverse membership. No? I think it does. RWA tries, and fails, to please everybody. No? I think it’s glaringly obvious. That’s all I said. That’s all I meant.
I believed when I wrote my comment that it was possible Damon was a victim of misunderstandings that might, in the course of further revelations, be cleared up. I no longer think so.
In other words, you and I are in complete agreement. So I’m sorry you feel we will never be friends. Oh well.
Diane the Misunderstood
Oh, perhaps I should mention … I was unaware people were “calling me out for my bullshit” because, as I may have mentioned a time or two, I do not follow the message boards. What a pain! I wish I could clear up whatever misunderstandings arose, but I can no longer view the thread.
Here’s the problem with your view on the ‘trying to conform’ bullshit, Diane.
We’re talking about books from black authors featuring black characters that consistently score lower across the board.
Last year, we had our first black RITA winner, Minx Malone, IIRC. And…the characters were white.
Now, keep in mind we have books with vampires, dragon shifters, werewolves, etc scoring high, finalling, WINNING.
But a book with two BLACK PEOPLE?
Basically, we’ve got people in RWA more open to have a corpse hook up with a living person than being accepting of A BLACK COUPLE FALLING IN LOVE.
And you call it “subjective reading” or some such bullshit.
No. It’s inherent, usually unrecognized bias and RWA is rife with it.
This isn’t about RWA CONFORMING. It’s about them stepping the hell up and demanding those who judge do the same and read books WITHOUT BIAS.
Because if people can get into vampires, shapeshifters, alien, buy there being a duke on every fricking corner of Regency England-and handsome, dapper ones, all them, nary a pox-scarred face among them, then they should damn well be able to read & fairly judge a book with two black people.
That’s NOT CONFORMING. It’s expecting people to be decent people.